Shamans and their annoying behavior

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Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:18 pm

I know a while back there was a fix so priests would only heal people directly in front of them. It was nice because it fixed a huge problem, but kind of sucks because it meant you couldn't get 4 healers on your hero anymore.

Shaman have a similar problem, often boosting people next to them instead of who they are supposed to.


Anyone know of an easy way to make that not happen?


Anyone thing Camel might change the game to give a similar fix to priests if we complain enough?
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by Urapeasnt on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:55 pm

What is your formation, and who are you trying to boost.
I've seen people put footman around shaman to make them boost troops with a longer range.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:11 pm

Urapeasnt wrote:What is your formation, and who are you trying to boost.
I've seen people put footman around shaman to make them boost troops with a longer range.

Now that I've got the Prince of Blades, most of the time my hero doesn't need 2 healers. I've got a couple formations I use, but they are variations on these:

S IW IW M P TC TC
S IW IW M P TC TC
S IW IW A P H H
S IW IW A P H H
S IW IW M P TC TC
S IW IW M P TC TC

OR

S IW IW P M T F
S IW IW P M T F
S IW IW A P H H
S IW IW A P H H
S IW IW P M T F
S IW IW P M T F



I want to switch one or both of the priests behind the hero to shaman, but they tend to either latch onto the TC or the M of the next row over instead of following the hero up to the front.

Without the shaman boosting the hero, he doesn't self heal as much.


I wish they could make a toggle on the formation that would enable/disable priests and shaman to heal/boost out of lane.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by Urapeasnt on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:28 pm

I'ts hard because thy tend to not focus on the hero, with either line up
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:48 pm

when your hero is in the middle like you have they will only boost him until he needs to move, but if you can move him to the top or bottom you can isolate one shaman against a wall with the priest on the other side, then he has no choice but to help your hero. not a perfect strategy for every situation but then again what is.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:30 pm

joshd wrote:when your hero is in the middle like you have they will only boost him until he needs to move, but if you can move him to the top or bottom you can isolate one shaman against a wall with the priest on the other side, then he has no choice but to help your hero. not a perfect strategy for every situation but then again what is.


Well I use variations on that setup. My hero generally goes to whatever lane is toughest. Sometimes he is on top or bottom. (That's what she said)

Lately I've been running into pretty geared succubuses in arena, who are almost always in the middle. My hero has to match them or they get to my mages. Sometimes I let the trolls and footmen tank the moderately geared berserkers or behemoths and they do ok.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by chiodo on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:02 am

I think they should make shamans act like priests. It would really help equal the field between mellee users and succy users. And its not nerfing any stats to the succy so it sounds pretty fair to me.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:28 am

i dunno, it would dramatically change how the strategy with the succubus is played, it might not change her stats per say but when surrounded by 6 lvl 6 shamans with a 2x magic boost i get plus 210 attack speed, imo i think its that way to level the differences in hp among all the units.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by chiodo on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:27 am

210 is a little bit over powered if you ask me. Espicially with the intoduction of gems having that much of an attack speed boost to an already fast attack speed gives no chance to other players.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by Akichi on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:24 am

Don't know how many of you played this when it first came out, but priests used to do the same thing long ago.

Unlike shaman (who doesn't like their hero 4x boosted), it made priests incredibly difficult to use as a front line healer.

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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Akichi wrote:Don't know how many of you played this when it first came out, but priests used to do the same thing long ago.

Unlike shaman (who doesn't like their hero 4x boosted), it made priests incredibly difficult to use as a front line healer.

Yeah I mentioned that in the first post, in briefer form.

I didn't know the shaman attack speed thing stacked though. Interesting. Does the mage slow stack as well then?
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:22 pm

i dont think it stacks per say but i think each individual hit slows the opponent down
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:24 pm

chiodo wrote:210 is a little bit over powered if you ask me. Espicially with the intoduction of gems having that much of an attack speed boost to an already fast attack speed gives no chance to other players.

if they wanted to make it so only 2 shamans could boost your hero it would be fine with me but for now i have to use the boost to just defend myself, im sure youve been attacked by bauh or jamo and they use that strategy for their attack and it just wipes out everything if you cant stop it.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:08 pm

I was unaware that shaman's ability stacked. Thats pretty awesome. I might start using them more.

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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:12 pm

If shaman attack speed stacks, is it multiplicative or addative?
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:34 pm

additive shaman cant boost other shaman and priests, just a unit attacking but you can surround your hero with 6 and have them buff so even at level 1 with no magic boost thats still +120% attack speed
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:01 pm

joshd wrote:additive shaman cant boost other shaman and priests, just a unit attacking but you can surround your hero with 6 and have them buff so even at level 1 with no magic boost thats still +120% attack speed

How do we know it is additive? I wish we had more stats available in game to monitor.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:57 pm

i would say it is additive over multipicitive, if it were the other way 6 lvl 1 shamans could boost attack speed to 200% vs. 120% and if they were lvl 6 shamans with a 2x magic boost it would put it at close to 350% attack speed. to me that seems too high that would mean for every hit of an equally equipped hero your hitting them almost 4 times, but this is just what i think i can only do the math on our end i cant tell you what the computer does
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:42 pm

joshd wrote:i would say it is additive over multipicitive, if it were the other way 6 lvl 1 shamans could boost attack speed to 200% vs. 120% and if they were lvl 6 shamans with a 2x magic boost it would put it at close to 350% attack speed. to me that seems too high that would mean for every hit of an equally equipped hero your hitting them almost 4 times, but this is just what i think i can only do the math on our end i cant tell you what the computer does

Well we could record some battles with different scenarios, play in super slow motion and count the number of attacks in a given time period.

I guess the best way to do that would be using the desktop emulator for android and running fraps.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:46 pm

If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is multiplicative, then 6 shamans = 299%.

If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is additive, then 6 shamans = 220%.

Delta = 79%


Should be pretty easy to measure the difference with a naked hero and recording it.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:57 pm

bullseyed wrote:If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is multiplicative, then 6 shamans = 299%.

If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is additive, then 6 shamans = 220%.

Delta = 79%


Should be pretty easy to measure the difference with a naked hero and recording it.

thats just level one though, probably easiest to figure out, but if it were multiplicitive that would mean attack speed at lvl 6 with 2 magic boost makes it 450% attack speed which just eyeballing from what ive seen in attack and defence that just seems too high, but if you can prove it i would love to see it
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by bullseyed on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:07 pm

joshd wrote:
bullseyed wrote:If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is multiplicative, then 6 shamans = 299%.

If base attack speed is 100% and a shaman increases attack speed by 20% and the increase is additive, then 6 shamans = 220%.

Delta = 79%


Should be pretty easy to measure the difference with a naked hero and recording it.

thats just level one though, probably easiest to figure out, but if it were multiplicitive that would mean attack speed at lvl 6 with 2 magic boost makes it 450% attack speed which just eyeballing from what ive seen in attack and defence that just seems too high, but if you can prove it i would love to see it

Looks like they top out at 32.5% at level 6.

That would mean:

Multiplicative: 541%
Additive: 295%

So yeah, that is a pretty big gap. Additive just seems like so much more work from a coding standpoint... hmm.
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Re: Shamans and their annoying behavior

Post by joshd on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:27 pm

lvl 6 caps out at 32.5 but each magic boost from the reasearch lab gives more percent i know at lvl 2 its 35.1% so at lvl 5 it would be boosting at 39%. i think 5 is the highest level for reaserch if its 6 then its 40.3% witch would widen the gap even further
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